Radical Transparency, Resilience & Adaptability with Nicola Buck

Hello everybody, and a very warm welcome to Cultural Communication Confidence with me, Victoria Rennoldson. And I’m really excited in the part of the International Women’s Day celebrations to have a guest with us on the show today. We have Nicola Buck, who is SVP marketing, BP, but also a very dear and old friend of mine. We’ve known each other I think for about 25 years now, when we were first studying languages together. So welcome to the show, Nicola. Thank you, Victoria. It’s lovely to be here. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Well, I’m really excited to talk to you about your leadership journey, and also the context of working and being a leader in global organisations. But first of all, I know, when we kind of came on to the recording just earlier, you were saying where you are. I don’t know if you want to share a little bit where in the world you are today joining us from.

Yeah, happy to. Thanks, Victoria. So I’m actually in Florida, at Kennedy Space Center. One of the brands in the BP portfolio is Castrol, and we are providing space grade lubricants to a little tool called an astroamp, which is developed by the MIT Media Lab. And last night it went up on a rocket to the south pole of the moon, so Castrol has been partnering with a company called Lunar Outpost, to work on that. And yeah, we’re looking at how our products will work in the extreme environments of the south, lunar or south pole of the lunar, south lunar pole, of the moon. So yeah, we’re really excited to see that. So I was representing the company last night and making sure that all went to plan and the rocket launched, and is now on its way to the moon. Amazing, wow, I mean what an amazing kind of part of what you do. And I also know that having known you for a very long time, that you have been on a journey towards that, towards where you are today and some of the exciting things that you do. So, perhaps to sort of roll back, could you just tell me, tell us a little bit about that leadership journey. How did you make it into leadership and how did you get to where you are right now?

Yeah, thanks Vic, it’s a great question. So, well, as you know, right, we started our journey together. We met as when we were students in Russia studying languages. And like you, I studied German and Russian, and I did because of a love of languages. But also what I found in studying languages was that it gave me a deep understanding of different cultures, and what I have learned over time is that that understanding of cultures and people helps you be pretty successful in global business. Because as well as the commercial and the marketing skills that you need to be successful in these type of roles. Actually for me, it’s all about how you act and interact with people. And so by being able to understand why people act in different ways, why different cultures see things in different ways, why we have different types of customers, what motivates people and the customers to do things or to buy things, helps you operate successfully in a global environment. And that’s what I feel really lucky to have done through my career. So you know, it started with that deep understanding of languages, cultures, that led to a love of travel and all things global and operating successfully with different, people in different places. With you, I then joined the graduate scheme at Boots, which gave me the marketing skills that I needed to kind of kick start my career. But it’s very much for me, been the mix of marketing, plus that cultural understanding, the global mindset, the people-focus that has helped me get to the position that I’m in today. I love everything I do, but what I really love about it is the fact that I get to work with people all over the world. I get to think about different customers and what matters to them, in countries again, in lots of different places and to drive business growth and success through doing that.

And you know, I’ve obviously been with you on part of that journey but you know, you’re somebody I know who has sort of lived in different countries. You’ve traveled very extensively through work as well. So I’m really kind of curious, you know, languages was the route. You know, how are you using your communication skills and how, how critical are they to you as a leader, in what you do? Yeah, look, I believe communication skills are everything in a global environment. If you just kind of keep going down a path where you just communicate through one method, you’re talking, you’re effectively talking to yourself and it’s a very linear path. If you can take a step back and recognise the difference in people, cultures the world over and tailor your communication style to that, you can start to build a deep understanding of people and what matters to them and create an environment where everybody feels like they can be themselves. You create an inclusive environment, and therefore communication across geographies and across people becomes much easier. I spent a lot of time in the last couple of years,
focusing on the notion of psychological safety, which for me is effectively that, which is creating an environment in a global business where everybody can be themselves, wherever they come from, whatever their background, whoever they are, where everyone feels like they can speak up, where everybody can question what’s going on in a safe space. And when everybody can act in that way, be themselves, speak up, not be afraid to join in. You create an environment where people can communicate effectively and therefore can go on to perform as effectively as possible. And so for me that, that culture of psychological safety, plus the notion of radical transparency, is something else I’ve spent a lot of time focusing on, is really important for successful global communications.

Those ideas and I wanted to touch on as a follow up on that. So psychological safety, I think most people would agree, is an incredibly important concept in any team, no matter how small or large or local or global. It’s easier said than done though. And I think I’m really kind of curious, therefore, like, how do you do that personally? How do you foster environments where there is psychological safety? What kind of actions can individuals take to really ensure their teams feel this? Yeah, look, I think it takes a lot of focused work. It’s a focused choice to create that culture. I think it becomes more natural over time. But I think to start with, you have to really put the effort in to build that, that culture. So for me, it starts by knowing your teams and your people and your colleagues. And that means taking the time up front if you’re setting a new team up or you’re building a new relationship with somebody to get to know them. You know, again, you know, Victoria, I have two children. I have a 15 year old and a 12 year old. They’re a bit older now, but certainly where they were younger and you know, they were sick or whatever it was and I needed time off work, I needed to know I was in an environment where people understood that that might happen. For other people it’s about having elderly parents they need to look after or it’s a difficult situation I might be in, or whatever it might be. But by taking the time to understand the whole self of the person that you’re talking to, you know, what matters in their life, what motivates them, what other factors are going on that might be impacting their day to day lives, you can then understand what they are dealing with on a day to day basis. So have they got something on at home that is taking away their focus for the day? Do they need some time off to deal with that something, are they finding something very difficult that day because, you know, because they had a bad night with a sick parent, or whatever it might be. You take the time to understand the whole person that you’re talking about. And if you, as a team, you can work together to understand each other, again, you have an environment which is much more supportive.

So it starts with that layer of taking time to get to know each other, who you are, what motivates you, and also then people’s strengths and development areas. Because if you can spend the time understanding that, again as a team, you can better support each other by recognising what one person is really good at, and what other people might need some support with. So take the time to understand personally, to understand the strengths and the development opportunities of your team so that you can support them, and create and foster that culture where that’s continuously discussed, so that people feel safe to be themselves. Once you’ve created that, the second point for me is this notion of radical transparency. Now there’s lots of tools out there that people use to help that things like Kanban boards and various visualisation tools for teams to help understand what is going on at any one point. But whether you use those tools or not, the notion of radical transparency for me is going, there’s nothing to hide. Everybody should be aware of what everybody is working on at any time without hiding or protecting anything, so that everybody can work out what their role is within that project, feel that they can contribute, feel that there’s nothing hidden, and understand where priorities are, so that if something needs to be prioritised one week over something else, then somebody’s not upset because they understand that bigger concept of whatever it is going on. But again, these meetings then take time and effort. And so then you need to think about the kind of cadence that you have to schedule the meetings for your teams. So for me I really believe in, in the idea of you know, what we called ‘weekly stand ups’, which might, just be 10 minutes, but it’s a 10 minute check in with the team every week just so that everybody can connect, look each other in the eye, check everybody’s okay, and just give everybody the opportunity to say, you know, what’s happening this week, anything you need anybody to know. If the answer is no, then you cut the call and you’re done in two minutes. If the answer is yes, you take the time to develop it, and you work through whatever it is that people are thinking about. But providing those kind of short sharp regular check ins for global virtual teams is really key.

Somebody gave me a snippet recently where they said, for global teams to communicate effectively you have to put in double the amount of time that you would if you were face to face. And that’s really stuck with me as well. So it’s trying to make sure that you put the short sharp check ins in to keep everybody connected. Especially in virtual teams. Double the amount of time that you’re spending as a team talking to each other if you are virtual and in different countries, so that everybody again feels part of it and you can understand what’s going on. And then obviously support that with whatever deep dive team meetings that you need ongoing to manage agendas. But I hope that gives you a feel for it, Victoria. Of how I approach it and what’s important to me. Yeah, I love that and I really like – thank you for explaining as well – radical transparency. I really like that concept. I think it is hard to bring that in sometimes, in very large global environments. And so that intention and focus on it sounds like it’s really working powerfully for you and your teams. I also, you know, that idea of the investment of time needed to create the communication and make global teams work. For me that is very fascinating, because I often hear the opposite, which is we are so busy, we have so many meetings, we have to do things faster. And it feels like the stuff that’s getting cut is the conversation, the talking, the small talk. So I’m kind of really interested. Do you sort of make that intentionally part of the meetings or do you have separate time when you’re getting to know each other, where you’re having that space and time to really know your each other and know the humans that you’re working with?

Yeah, look, I think it’s both of those. And I also think it depends on the kind of stage of team development that you’re at. So you know, if you’re starting a new team, after a restructure or a new job or whatever that might be, then really putting that conscious time in up front to spend getting to know each other and on team dynamics is really important. Once the team’s established, then you obviously do it at different moments, when new people come in or whatever that is, and then at regular cadence across the years to make sure that you’re putting that time in to get it dedicated to teams. it is really easy to believe that that’s what should get cut in times of stress, because there’s too much to do. We don’t have time, don’t spend the time. But without fail, every time we step back and take that time afterwards, you kind of see the power of having connected on a human level. And I’m a firm believer of once you’ve put that effort into connection, actually performance follows and vice versa. You know, at times when I see performance declining, it’s often because people feel disconnected and have lost the connection to the wider purpose or thread of a team. But it isn’t easy, and time is always, precious. Which is why I think this notion of small – if you can’t create the regular big chunks of time, although I believe in trying, but at least the regular check ins just give people a hook to feel like they’re still part of something and connected to something. And you can again, just, especially in virtual teams, look people in the eye and just try and check that they’re okay and that we’re all still focused for the week. So, you know, trying to create time across the year to make sure that you’re having that purposeful connection time, and lots of kind of short, sharp bursts of connections and over communicating, in between, even, even when it gets difficult.

Really very practical advice. So thank you for sharing on that. And so now moving into something maybe a little bit different. I mean one of the other aspects of what I focus on is cultural intelligence. And the name of this podcast is Cultural Communication Confidence. So the cultural element of this, you talked about how this really fascinated you at the beginning of your career and in your studies as well. You know, how much are you sort of thinking about that, sort of adapting communication culturally? I’m quite curious about how you see that. Working with really very international teams. Yeah, look, it’s something I think about a lot. But again you have to take the time to recognise that different people communicate in different ways, different cultures communicate in different ways, different countries do things in different ways. And again, only by pausing and recognising that and taking the time to understand the people you’re working with, what motivates them, why they act in a different way, and building teams around those different ways of doing things, can you, does it help and helps people be more effective. You know, you and I both lived in Germany, right? Typically, things are very direct there and people want to have direct conversations. Other cultures will want to talk a lot more. And if you’re on a global call, where you’ve got those two different dynamics, it doesn’t always work unless you’ve taken the time to get to know each other and understand why somebody does things in a different way. So, yeah, so that deep cultural understanding of what you do, is really important. And, it does vary hugely. You know, we’re doing the Castrol business that I am, involved in as well, is very active in, countries like, you know, 140 countries worldwide, but Asia, South America, you know, cultures that are very different to the British culture. And again, understanding what, why people act in different ways and taking the time to show you’ve thought about that is really important. But what I find or have found through languages as well though is, if you’re willing to take a little bit of time to listen and to understand, it gives you a lot more credibility when you’re operating in cultures that are not your own. You know, going into those cultures with an English or Western mentality into an Eastern culture and saying that you’ve got the answers rarely works. It rarely works for people and it rarely works for customers. And so if you translate this topic into what does that matter for customers? You know, that’s where the notion of customer insights and customer intelligence comes from. That only by kind of understanding what customers want, what their pain points are, what their lives are about, do you be successful in marketing. I apply the same principles to teams and people. You need to apply that same kind of cultural insights, way of thinking to understand how you run teams effectively across all of those different areas of the team’s life.

Yeah, yeah, I like that a lot. I like that idea as well of listening first, actually not going in with just the answer, but actually listening genuinely, to what the specific concerns, questions, issues are in that region, in that area. and I think that’s really powerful. I’m also, Nicola, I’m really kind of interested in kind of people listening to this podcast are often people who are on their own leadership journey. So either they are, the first steps in leadership or they’re aspiring to leadership. And I’m really kind of interested in kind of what kind of advice you’d be giving them in terms of what areas to focus on now. You know, clearly there are, there are leadership skills that endure, that have been around for a while, but there might be things that are happening right now in this moment that you see which are really important for upcoming leaders.

Yeah, look, great question. And, I don’t know about you, but I feel like the world is changing so fast right now. Again, from a kind of marketing perspective, you know, every week I am bombarded with new offers and technologies and digital tools and about AI and automation and CRM, and all those good things out there that are transforming the way we will work for forever. And so how do you keep up with that change, right? The question that you’re asking is one that my teams and people, I work with ask all the time, how do you keep up? What do I need to do? How do I progress? What does the future look like? And I’m not sure we have all those answers. I think for the first time in history, you know, the pace of change will never, never be the same as it is today. We hear that phrase a lot. And so finding ways to make that normal is really key. And so for me, I offered kind of a couple of pieces of advice. The one is, don’t underestimate the changes in digital AI, all of those good things which are the topic at the moment. You need, even if you’re not experts in them, you need to be able to converse in them. So spend the time reading, doing the training. You don’t have to spend a lot of money on it, right. There’s loads of free stuff out there, online, to keep up to date with the latest technologies. But be able to converse in these topics even if you’re not a deep expert. But the second one for me is about, I really believe in – it’s more today about how you work than what you do. So obviously develop your expertise and your anchor in whatever you’re going to work in. For me, that’s marketing, but think really hard about how you operate. Right. So in the past, what I mean by that? Well, in the past we talked a lot about IQ. I now really believe in three other things. And when I’m recruiting, I look at this. The importance of EQ is really important. We’ve spoken a lot about that, right? Over the last, over the course of this interview. But today it’s also about RQ, and AQ. So, Adaptability Quotient and Resilience Quotient and those two skills as well as IQ and EQ, you’ve got to find your balance on those. But the ability to adapt again, AQ, Adaptability Quotient. Adapt to whatever you’re thrown at. Right? We work in a world where everything is changing. So much is new. The pace of change is so quickly that you have to be able to adapt, adapt, adapt. Right? The other, the other phrase I like is reframe, reframe, reframe, right? We work in a world where we decide something today, historically, that would have stayed the same for a year. Today, I feel like, you know, you’re lucky if it stays the same for a week or a month. and sometimes you have to pivot every day, sometimes you have to pivot every minute, right? And if you can get into that mindset of adaptability, just being, that’s just the way it is. It makes life a lot easier, and I think it’s necessary to survive. The other one is, as I say, Resilience Quotient. And that is, again, reflective of the fact that our world’s pretty tough. There’s new things, there’s challenger brands, there’s new technologies, meaning we need to do something in a different way. And the ability to be resilient through times of change and through times of pressure, I think is really key for the future. So hopefully two pieces there. The one is stay up to date with the latest trends, even if you’re not an expert. Read, understand and be able to converse in them. But think really hard about how you operate. So, EQ, IQ, RQ and AQ.

Amazing. I love that. I love that real kind of nugget of kind of what works and how you see the world and what is important right now. I think, you know, this idea, adaptability for sure is critical, right, whatever field anybody is in. The resilience piece again, is really fascinating to me. And if you don’t mind, I might ask you, how do you stay resilient? Because, you know, this is something which is not easy, right? There are days when things are moving all the time, personally, professionally. Yeah.
How do you manage that? Yeah, look, it’s very easy to say, right. But actually pretty hard to do. And, again, I’m, you know, like we said, 25 years into my career, right. So I’ve had a lot of time to be able to, think about this. And so I say that because for any of your younger audience joining, I do think that’s – I think it’s a journey that you have to learn about over time. I don’t think it’s a quick fix. How do I stay resilient? Well, look, I do think you have to deeply understand yourself. So that’s another piece of advice that, going back to how my career has developed and how I’ve done that, I’ve spent a lot of time over the years. Sorry. Deeply understanding myself, you know, what matters to me, my values, strengths, development opportunities, you know, all of those kind of things. I’ve had lots of coaching, been on lots of courses, and again these kind of you know, psychological assessments, they don’t have to be expensive. I mean you obviously can pay for these kind of things. There’s plenty out there online that you can just kind of go through online tests and things like that. Just understand what motivates you. Because I think if you can have a deep understanding of what matters to you and what’s important, that allows you to tailor what you do. It allows you to focus on what’s important and when times get tough, to go back to what really matters to you. If you can deeply understand kind of your trigger points, so you start to recognise when something triggers you, you know, then how to react, right. So tools over the years of you know, pausing a little bit before you respond, right. Those kind of things have really helped me. I used to feel like I needed to respond to everything immediately. And I had a reputation for doing everything really, really fast. But you’ve learned over time that actually pausing a little bit, thinking more, taking your time to respond actually leads to a better outcome. But that comes from that understanding of how I act and why I respond to things in the way I do. Equally deeply understanding why I act in the way I am, you know, what motivates me, allows me to focus my choices in the future of what I do and where I spend my time. And recognising your well being triggers, right, recognising when you’re getting stressed, what you need to do to balance that. Recognising when you need to sleep, to take a breath, to spend time with your family. I think all of that is really important in keeping that balance. And that’s how I build my resilience or at least try to. Again, it is easy to say, but for your listeners it takes time and effort to deeply understand yourself and your motivators to be able to operate in that way.

What I’m hearing you saying is self-awareness is the key to all of this. So the self-awareness to know what your motivations are, your wellbeing triggers the things that you need to energise you, to nourish you, to keep you in best form. And I also hear you saying something around it doesn’t have to be that it’s funded by your company, organisation, actually you can take that responsibility for yourself to do this yourself, right? I think that’s really interesting message. Yes, absolutely. There are so many resources out there now, which is amazing. Now again, many of your companies will hopefully fund some of this, but if they don’t, and obviously in times of cost pressure that becomes very difficult. There’s plenty out there and there’s plenty of networks you can join to talk about it. And plenty of online resources to help with, with that kind of self awareness. Fantastic. That’s great. So, as a leader right now, what sort of, you’ve talked about sort of some of the topics right now. What’s changing, what are important skills, what people need to focus on, what’s coming next? What do you think is the next challenges or the future for leaders?

We touched on some of this of, you know, the wave of efficiency and opportunities to do things in a different way is, is super exciting. Right? The topic at the moment being AI, right? What is that going to do? And it’s, we’re at a tipping point of you know, is AI a threat or an opportunity? And for many people, and many of your listeners, I’m sure people feel both sides of that. In marketing, it’s incredibly exciting to think about what things like generative AI are going to be able to do for us, what that can drive in terms of, you know, faster to market communications, more effective communications, because it links to individual customers and their needs and their wants and what, you know, what they’re looking for from companies. The way things are generated will drive different agency models. But of course the other side of it is people are starting to worry about jobs, and that’s bringing in you know, threats and feelings of insecurity. And so you know, leading through those changes is, is really hard. But hence going back to the point of be conversant with all these things, don’t be afraid of them. If you try to pretend they’re not happening, that’s where we tend to kind of fall into, into trouble. So that era of AI efficiency, doing things differently, cost reduction, how do you embrace that as a leader versus fighting away from it? And how do you get your teams to do the same? I think that’s one big chunk. I think the other is just kind of speed of change and how we look into that and embrace change, embrace a world which is ever more uncertain. But that’s why I always go back to inner world, which is so uncertain, and where we can feel nervous. I’m sure you feel it for your children, Victoria. I know I do, what jobs are they going to go into, what’s going to be there for them? The career paths that we followed don’t necessarily exist anymore. Now they might for a while. It’s not quite the same. And so, in a world where you face uncertainty, how do you take that head on? Which is why I always go back to, within corporate worlds, I think it starts with a customer, think in a world where everything is uncertain, at least if you’re focusing on your customer, your customer pain points, when you’re developing something your customers want, well, then you’re heading in the right direction. And I think the same applies then for individuals and career paths, which is if you, you know, if you focus on, on you, what really matters to you, deep self-awareness, and you’re doing something in service of, of that, whatever it is, then just keep doing the next right thing, keep stepping forward, keep moving forward. But I think we’ve all got to get comfortable with an uncertain world, an uncertain future, and get comfortable with moving forward in small incremental steps in service of that.

Amazing. And I love that idea of leaning in, embracing whatever comes, you know, we can’t control, but we can absolutely lean into, the learning, be on our own path of always learning with this. and yes, I think it’s really fascinating what our kids are going to end up doing one day. Really hard to predict right now. Nicola, this has been amazing. I mean, you have shared so much wealth of insight, wealth of wisdom and ideas here, around what leadership means to you today and tomorrow. And I know our listeners are going to be really, really benefiting from this. Do you have any sort of last thoughts, for this episode? Just about, you know, any final bits of advice or tips or thoughts around what you want people to take away from our conversation?

What would I wrap up on? Look, I think – great conversation, first of all. Thank you for having me and I love the conversation. These kind of topics, I think, can hopefully inspire and also terrify people because the world is so different. And for kind of your younger audience going on that journey, trying to find their path, it can all feel daunting. Look, the other side of that though is to go, look, we would live in a world where anything is possible. Right. We just sent a rocket last night to the south pole of the moon. Right. Nobody has ever been there before. anything is possible. And so I think, you know, positive mindset, deep self-awareness, believe in yourself, but also always be kind to yourself. it’s a piece of advice that somebody offered me when I was talking to a coach once, and I was saying, oh, you know, I don’t know how to move forward. I don’t know what to do next. And I was kind of arguing with myself and telling myself off. And the coach said to me, don’t talk to yourself like that. Right. The power of positive self-belief. Be really kind to yourself. And when things feel overwhelming, be that in your career decisions, be that in the next step in your journey, just step back and be kind to yourself and have a conversation in your head that, that kind of says, look, it’s okay. You’re going to be okay. You’re going to find a way through this. That power of positive speak, being kind to yourself. And then, say deep self-awareness as you move forward through what is a complicated but exciting future. and just keep moving forward. It’s better to do something than nothing.

Brilliant. I love it. So anything is possible. And, be kind to yourself. Those are a fantastic way for us to end, today’s episode. Nicola, thank you so much for taking the time to come and meet me to do this podcast episode. It’s been really insightful, I’m sure, not only for our listeners, but I’ve learned a lot as well. And it’s been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Excellent. All right, I look forward to seeing everybody next time.