Grow your Global Career: Thrive through Multicultural Career Transitions with Fiorenza Rossini

Victoria: Hi, everybody, and a very warm welcome to Cultural Communication, Confidence, and I’m really excited to be back for a podcast episode with a guest today. We have Fiorenza Rossini joining us. So, hi, Fiorenza, nice to see you again.

Fiorenza Rossini: Hi, Victoria. Very nice to see you today. Thanks for having me.

Victoria: No worries at all. It’s absolutely brilliant to have you on the podcast. I know we started talking a few months ago about doing this, and I know you’ve got lots to share in terms of developing a global career and managing different stages of career. So thank you so much for being here today.

Fiorenza Rossini: Thank you.

Victoria: So, what I thought we’d start talking about is that we’re recording this in September 2024. I get the feeling from the kinds of conversations that I’m having at the moment that there’s a lot of change going on in the world of work today, particularly in the world of organisations, large companies, and, that is impacting how people are thinking about their careers right now. But I would love to get your perspective on this. What are you seeing and how are you seeing the world at work right now?

Fiorenza Rossini: That’s an amazing question. It’s something that has been coming up with, current clients at the minute. And in fact, some, clients that have ended their work with me a while ago, have actually reached back and, you know, so I can see that there is this time of reflection. Also appreciate that in some industries perhaps where they are and, you know, the layoffs that have happened have perhaps pushed people into reflecting in terms of, is this the care of paths that I want for myself? Am I on the right trajectory? Is there something that is missing? Of course this may sound like privileged questions to ask, oneself for many individual because of, mortgages and loans and costs and all that. So I also want to highlight that because I’m aware that it is the reality for many, and rightly so. Yet, even if that is, someone’s reality, I feel like there is an amount of questioning that is going. I’m going through, rounds of interviews. I’m actually having conversation with this new organization, this other organization. Are, ah, there questions that I can perhaps include on my end that would make sure that there is a better fit in terms of even the workplace environment? Perhaps you’ve had leaders that were not so great leaders before. You’ve been burned in one way or another, or, you know, you may even find yourself having just left a toxic workplace. What would be questions that you can ask that would integrate some, intel, right? How can you get some intel, to answer some of the red flags you may have? Right? Yes. Does that answer your question?

Victoria: It does. And do you know what? That’s really interesting, though, isn’t it? Because I think so often we kind of think about actually, in situations like people going through, let’s say, redundancies or unfortunately, losing their jobs, there is that pressure to go find the next thing quickly, to go and find the next job. But what I hear you talking about there is actually, it’s not about finding any job or finding any move. It has to also be the right move and, to reflect and recognize what didn’t work with the previous role. Is that how I understand what you’re saying?

Fiorenza Rossini: Yes, absolutely. you know, if. If you find yourself in a very unhappy situation before, or just a job that wasn’t exactly what you were looking for, you can definitely do better this time. You can find a better manager. You can find a workplace that may have. May allow you to have a bit more flexibility. and it doesn’t mean that, you know, I’m also very kind of down to us. I’m aware that, you know, you need to find a job in many occasions quite quickly. so it may sound unrealistic to expect to go from the workplace I was in last week was really only a 10% fit in terms of, ideally, what I’m looking for in terms of the workplace environment, leadership and all that. So to go from that 10% to 100%. But even in that range, there is so much better than you can do. And actually going from 20, 30% is already going to have so much, positive impact on your day to day and the energy you’re going to carry to work every day.

Victoria: I can imagine that. And I think that’s quite important, isn’t it, that actually it’s also a journey. It might not be that next role, it might be that there are stepping stones that take you towards the absolute ideal role. So actually, that’s a really good sort of aiming point to have. so I’m also interested because I know that some of the listeners who are, tuning into this podcast, they are people who, some of them are already in global careers, but some really want to get into that space. So maybe they are working for an international organization already, but based in one location. Maybe they want to have experiences where they are perhaps working in more diverse teams. maybe they even want to relocate, and be living and working in a different country to have a different experience. Do you have any sort of tips and ideas, because I know yourself that you’re incredibly multicultural, that you’ve had those experiences yourself. And I know you help clients with this as well. So how do you build that sort of global career? How can you make that transition?

Fiorenza Rossini: That’s a great question. I would say it’s something that you and I have talked about, actually, before, really working on your self awareness, first and foremost. So it sounds like 1 may be clear already that having a global career is something that is important for their career growth. Clarifying how that will help them. What is perhaps the experience, exactly? What are the skills that they are trying to develop then working or simultaneously working on their own self awareness. What do I mean by that? What are your values? What do you stand for? What are your strengths? What are you bringing into your next role? The role that you’re gonna, be starting soon internationally. and then I would say, getting also quite acquainted with the culture. there’s so many assessments, right. And so many kind of information that we can find, nowadays where you get to learn more about the culture. So how does this culture typically communicate? How does this culture perhaps typically makes decision or provides feedback? how is hierarchy perceived? And, yeah, so really getting, acquainted with those concepts and comparing how, you know, where is that picture compared to your own picture and your own personal preferences. I would say that this would be the place to start. What do you think? Would you?

Victoria: Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, I absolutely agree with you. Like, I think you’re right. It is about understanding yourself. But understanding, like, if there are certain, I, don’t know, you know, specifically which cultures you might want to work with or where you might like to relocate to doing research, understanding where the similarities, maybe the differences might come up. but I think it’s also really important to recognize there are so many different ways to learn. So I think the models are a really great way, definitely. And I know you use them in your work. I use them in mine. but I wonder as well whether just, are there sort of certain places that you go to in terms of insights? I don’t know. Whether you have certain, I don’t know, people you follow on LinkedIn or books that you recommend or, I don’t know. Do you have any sort of places that you use to help with this, to have that sort of broader view of the world?

Fiorenza Rossini: I would say the book that I’ve recommended many times, especially when it’s the first move that you’re looking at or even you’re getting into the space of working with people, you know, from different cultures is the culture map by Erin Meyer. That is, it’s my kind of go to place, and I find it very tangible. And the feedback I’m getting from clients that I’m recommending the book is, yes, you know, it was a quick. It’s a relatively quick read, and if you work in an organization, you will resonate with many, if not all, the examples that are provided. I’m also, a big fan of RW3 that I’ve been doing some work with, and also Hofstede Insights. Hofstede Insights specifically, because perhaps you’re not familiar at all with the country, you’re able to plot, the different, cultural norms of several countries altogether. And you have access to that instantly, which is amazing. and it’s free, which is also amazing. I would say those are really the places where I would recommend starting and having a look. I really love the cultural intelligence model that I know you work with, although I am not, an accredited facilitator, so I wouldn’t. But the literature around that is quite helpful, I find, as well.

Victoria: Yeah. And, I think that’s the thing. There are so many different ways, there’s so many different models, and I think we’re very. We’re in a stage of where there are many different angles on this and there’s lots of information out there. So it’s a great. You know, there’s a lot we can do as individuals, and I know the work you do and I do, helping clients understand themselves and others. But I think one of the questions that sometimes comes up, and I’m really curious to get your perspective on this, is that, how do we, the people that we tend to work with tend to be really very open and want to be able to adapt themselves. But how do you not over adapt? How do you stay still true to yourself, but still be a good global leader? I don’t know if that makes sense as a question, but how do we do this? Get the balance right?

Fiorenza Rossini: Absolutely. So once you know yourself and you get to know more and more about the cultures that you’re going to be exposed to, so you get to build, that knowledge base a fair amount. perhaps there is an opportunity there to identify what’s the gap. and in that gap, what is important for me to honour and what could I adapt on? I think it’s important to identify those two things because that will then allow you to keep your authenticity in one way, you may realize that in a culture, if you’re having, if so, pose, you may identify that in a culture that you’re often working with, there is, a strong sense of disagreement. Is not something that we do in public or as a group in a team meeting. And then that may not fit with you personally in that situation. In that context, what do you do? Do you honour your own value or actually do you adapt and find different ways to express that disagreement? I don’t necessarily think that there’s a right or wrong answer, but if one is able to identify that and then also reflect on the impact that your decision may have, I think you then are empowered and whatever you decide will feel more authentic for you. If I take another example, perhaps you work in a culture and, expressing emotions are not necessarily something that is done, in a meeting, but you decide, or you actually firstly know that for you it’s very important to express emotions and to have hands and, you know, it shows your enthusiasm, or perhaps, your lack of enthusiasm. What do you want to do? You may decide that actually, yes, I reflected there’s this gap, and I don’t think that if I were to over express my enthusiasm as per that culture, cultural norm, it’s going to have a negative impact for myself or for the group. So here I decide that I want to honour that value of mine and not go for the poker face, philosophy, let’s say. And so that’s fine. You made a choice. You made a conscious choice, and I think that authenticity comes with that. It’s not about forgetting who you are and just adapting and flexing, because that then could a little bit go in the territory of masking and covering. Right.

Fiorenza Rossini: So if you’ve reflected and you’ve really assessed what’s going on, I think that’s where the authenticity, can come up.

Victoria: I m like that, and I like the examples you gave there because it’s not the same answer for every situation. It sounds like it’s very situation dependent. Right. So you’ve got to decide what is most effective in this situation. What’s going to help me, I suppose, connect the other person in that situation.

Fiorenza Rossini: Right, absolutely, absolutely. and connection, I mean, you have to find a way to connect. When you move to another country, when you work with or within a team that is multicultural, you have to find that, And there isn’t a one size fits all answer. You need to figure it out based on yourself, where you’re at, and where others are at. And that’s where the magic happens as well. I like just the thing that there is no one size fits all. There is no framework that you can follow. You do this and then this and then this. There is always so much personal reflection that we bring into it and then because we’re all humans, it’s unique. So we have unique answers all around. So that’s amazing.

Victoria: Yeah, I like that idea. There is no one size fits all. And I suppose at the same time though, thinking about practically for say, let’s say somebody was suddenly a leader of a team across different time zones, different countries, they’re based in one location, everybody else is based in different locations. What sort of tips have you got for creating that connection? What are the ideas that you’ve got? Because I know one of the things that you’re very passionate about is the sense of belonging and creating belonging. So I’m really interested to get your perspective on that.

Fiorenza Rossini: Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, my recommendation there would be to get to know your team, get to know them on a one to one, have one to one scheduled, especially at the beginning of that, partnership of you being in that role or a new team member joining. Get to know them, not just, you know, the CV, not just updates on their projects and tasks, but actually get to know them. What do you stand for? what is important for you? What’s, you know, what are the big milestones even that you’ve had so far in life? And I appreciate that depending on the, the cultures, it may not be questions that you can ask straight away. And perhaps you need more time before asking the questions or actually finding answers through perhaps a bigger conversation. And so really giving yourself time, permission to take time for that relationship to be established. So again, there is perhaps simultaneously a bit of homework to do in terms of what are the cultures that I’m working with here, what do I need to know about them? How can I educate myself? in a way that is enough for me to have those successful, rapport being built. And then also I would recommend getting some time as a team. you can’t just be having silo conversation one to one, that’s great to do, but also do bring the team together straight away. and perhaps being, you know, I’m actually a big believer in this, share that it’s a work in progress that, you know, this is what you’re doing, this is perhaps where you want to go. You would, you would want to create a team where everyone feels, included and they feel that they belong. And so this is, you know, my plan. This is the structure that I’m giving myself. Invite people to give you ideas in that meeting, on emails, on whatever other meme that you think may match the different cultures that you have there or different styles that you’ve identified. it will take time. I do think that it takes time to create that sense of belonging, but it’s, it’s crucial because if team members feel that they belong, then that’s where you have a very productive team, a very efficient team, creative. So, yes, it’s a win win.

Victoria: Yeah. I think this is so important because that sense of connection, and belonging actually is really hard to cultivate in current times. I think when we don’t have that sort of water cooler chat, we don’t have those little moments during the day where we can just have a quick conversation about something. And so I sort of really like your sort of suggestion there that it takes as long as it takes. Actually, in some cultures, with some people you can go more like direct and say, well, tell me all about yourself. With other people, you might – that may take time. so I really appreciate that suggestion, actually, because the way that we reveal ourselves isn’t necessarily the way that others do that, right?

Fiorenza Rossini: Absolutely, absolutely. And, if a leader hasn’t had a lot of exposure to cultures, perhaps one thing that can feel surprising is how much of, their personal life or not the team members may bring. and just how in some cultures it’s so common to just spread over what’s going on at home and in other cultures it’s really not. And it may feel that, oh, this is inappropriate territory, but actually, yeah, it very much depends. And so perhaps yourself as a leader, you know, getting comfortable, with, different type of conversation or social chat that you may have at the start or at the end of a meeting if you’re not used to it, could be something to consider too.

Victoria: Yeah. Do you know what? I think one of the most revealing questions I find is sometimes if you ask somebody, ‘how are you?’ and what kind of response you get to that. You know, I’ve had conversations where people with ‘how are you?’ has a response of, ‘yep, fine, you?’. And I’ve had conversations with people where ‘how are you?’ has led to almost like a five minute monologue with really quite a lot of depth about somebody’s personal life, what was really going on for them. Now, context plays a role in this, obviously, the relationship dynamic, the power dynamic. But I, you know, I find that really fascinating, the interpretation we can put behind a very simple question like this.

Fiorenza Rossini: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Victoria: And, so for people who are building this kind of global career, who are looking to become, you know, the global leaders of tomorrow, or maybe they’re there already, you know, what do you see as the most important factors for success? Like, going forward, you know, in current times, but also as you look forward, you know, what do you see is coming up for your clients and that people really need to think about as they’re as important to develop their careers?

Fiorenza Rossini: What’s coming to mind is developing inclusive behaviours for yourself, but also as part of the culture of the team. You are a leader now, and you are developing tomorrow’s leaders. so there is, you know, this massive kind of waterfall, effect, I think. and we are. I believe the workplace is getting more and more diverse. age, race. are you neurotypical? Neurodivergent? So much is kind of being talked about now, which is great. and I’m a big believer that we have to do something good about it. and we have responsibility. As we have a responsibility as leaders, we want to. I do believe that if we are able, as leaders, to cultivate inclusive behaviours, not only it’s going to help our team members being their best self, because then they feel included, they feel that they belong. You get better results as well. But then yourself, as, as a leader, you get loyalty, probably right, because you have. You have created such a strong sense of belonging in your team members. You’re able to, it demonstrate that you’re able to communicate and not, only in a technical work capacity, but also beyond that. So it does set you up for success in your own trajectory as a leader as you’re moving up. yeah, I think that would be, the top thing that’s coming to mind.

Victoria: Fantastic. No, thank you for sharing that. It’s just really interesting to get your perspective on that question. So one of the things that I always like to sort of ask people who come on the podcast is that the name of this podcast is Cultural Communication Confidence. And apart from being three C’s, I’m kind of interested to get your perspective on what does that mean? You like, how can we be more confident in cultural communication?

Fiorenza Rossini: That’s a great question. all right, getting a second to think about that. How can we be more confident in cultural communication? I would start with perhaps getting clear on our own definition. What do we mean? What do we mean by communication? But then more specifically, what do we mean by cultural communication? What’s our own, what’s our own objective there, which perhaps may include our own challenges. And what would it mean for us to be confident? I think that it can be quite subjective, what confidence means to people. But then, especially when it comes to communication, I find that some people go straight into being confident, to talking to an audience, in front of an audience, public speaking. And what if that audience is made of, different cultures? Right. So it could mean that someone, many people would associate the public speaking, you know, element, other people may go more into. I really want to limit any misunderstandings that we have in the team. I want, you know, if I’m, if I’m talking about something in a meeting or if someone else is talking about something in a meeting, I really want everyone to be on the same page and everyone to hear the same thing. So how can we achieve that? so what do we mean? would be my top thing. and what do you need to get there? Is that only about self work? Is it only about yourself? Or do we need external resources? Is that teamwork that’s needed? Is there something else that’s needed? So what is that?

Victoria: Yeah, and I think that’s a really interesting point that you raise, which is confidence is subjective, actually. We’re often looking at other people and saying, well, they look confident as a leader or confident in that situation. However, actually they may be way out of their comfort zone, but just not outwardly kind of showing that. And I think that’s really interesting when it comes to the space of cultural communication or communicating across cultures, you know, this idea of actually, what does confidence look like? We never really probably ever feel fully confident or fully aware of what’s going on. And actually that’s okay to accept that is okay.

Fiorenza Rossini: Absolutely. And to your point, yes, I think many see others and they feel like, wow, this person is so confident. I want to be like them. Right. because they see confidence, but that person may be in a totally different headspace and they may also have their own doubts. But, we don’t see that. We don’t see that, we are really seeing things through our own lens. So, Yes, agreed.

Victoria: Excellent. Just one last thought. I know how important this idea of belonging and inclusiveness is important to you and your work and what you do. What is just the final thought from you in terms of how do we increase belonging in global teams? How do we create more of that inclusive thinking?

Fiorenza Rossini: I would say really looking at behaviours that go on. behaviours that really go on. So perhaps the things that are not talked about, that tend to happen in the background or not necessarily things that are said. Right. So there could be more of reading the room that may be needed. Are those behaviours having the impact that you’re expecting to create within your team? and if so, that’s great, but if not, what could we do? What could we do about that? are our team members really understood? Do we know each other? Do we know what’s important for each other? If not, what could be done? What could the leader perhaps create to facilitate that conversation? And talk about the difference that it can lead to the impact, the positive impact that inclusive behaviours can have, not just for the work itself, but also towards a stronger sense of belonging. And, yeah, I’ll stop there.

Victoria: Excellent. Well, that’s a really great last thought. So thank you so much, Fiorenza for sharing that. I really appreciate it, and this has been a great conversation. I really enjoyed talking to you about these topics, and I think, you know, I’ve taken a lot from this and I think our listeners will do as well. So, you know, thank you so much for joining us here. Just as a last thought, if people want to connect with you to find out more what you do, where are the best places for them to find out more about you, to kind of come follow you and, find out more about what you do.

Fiorenza Rossini: Thank you so much, Victoria. First of all, it’s been amazing to have had this conversation with you. So thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I’m a lot on LinkedIn these days, so I would love to – yeah, if people want to find me on LinkedIn and carry on this conversation, and share further on what we’ve said today, I’m there and would love to. You can also find me on my website, growinnow.com. Yeah, thank you so much again, Victoria.

Victoria: No problems at all. And by the way, I highly recommend as well Fiorenza’s, podcast as well, which is the Belonging Project. Is that right?

Fiorenza Rossini: That’s right.

Victoria: So, yeah, you can have a listen to that as well, but we’ll put all the links in the show notes. But in the meantime, a huge thank you to you, Fiorenza. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.

Fiorenza Rossini: Thank you, Victoria. My pleasure.

Victoria: Lovely. And look forward to seeing everybody next time.